Old Goat

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Posts by Old Goat

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  34

  History of Witnessing in the UK.

  by Chariklo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when did things really take off for the wt in the uk?

  can anyone help with some research ideas?.

  the proclaimers book gives some ideas, but i'm wondering how quickly it grew.

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  Old Goat

  According to Schulz and deVienne (Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet), there was interest in the UK from the 1860s. They name and connect to articles by an Eliash H. Tucket, a Baptist turned follower of Barbour. A Christadelphian journal reviewed Barbour's Midnight Cry booklet and there were Herald of the Morning subscribers in the UK. On their web sites (one of which is invitation only) they reprint the review.

  A Canadian writer noticed Zion's Watch Tower in an article published in Rainbow. Earlier Rainbow had reviwed Three Worlds. The first concerted effort in the UK was by two Americans sent by Russell, John Corbin Sunderlin (a pioneer era photographer and former Methodist minister) and Joseph J. Bender. The contracted the printing of thousands of copies of Food for Thinking Christians and had them circulated by messenger boys. Small congregations grew up almost over night, but they remaind very small.

  A significant number of early converts within the United States were immigrants from the UK. They evangelized by mail, and Russell notes that one of them wrote letters to put interested readers in England and Scotland in touch with each other. That in brief, is the story as two reliable historians present it. What the Watchtower says is mostly wrong.
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  188

  Rick Fearon should apologise for accusing faders of being cowards

  by cedars in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hate doing this type of thread.

  none of us are perfect, least of all myself, and i would rather focus any criticism on the watch tower society for damaging people's lives.

  however, in the short period since i've been a member of this forum i've noticed one member in particular deteriorate in his behaviour into the type of individual who threatens to undermine the credibility of the entire website.

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  Old Goat

  I seldom post on threads such as this one, but Mr. Fearon’s conduct is so egregious that I will this time. The world is full of angry, marginalized people. His website and call-in shows are his attempt to regain something lost. He is abusive and stupid.

  There is no expectation of free speech on a private forum. I don’t care if he goes or stays, but his chronic stupidity paints us all with the same brush. Most of us aren’t as he is, but those who come here out of curiosity cannot help but wonder if we are all as abusive, unthinking and gullible. If this were my forum, my opinion would change. He’d be gone in a second. As a forum reader, I simply ignore him. He feeds of attention, even negative attention.

  Johnny the Bethelite? Please … Rick in the 24 Columbia Heights building on the fourth floor in the NW corner there is a door. Something is written on the door. Ask Johnny what it is. I’d love to know his answer. (I mean the door on the right, inside hall.) On the fifth floor, same building, there is a series of paintings. Have dear ol’ Johnny list them in order starting from elevator right. I’d love to know his answer.

  Mr. Fearon is a conspiracy-theory fanatic. His message is off target. He is the epitome of the wild-eyed, bag-over-head, sign carrying apostate. He refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions. He is an attention whore who misses what little prominence he had within the Watchtower organization. Why he receives the attention that he does is a mystery to me.

  Would you engage this man in real life? If not, then why do it here? My mental image of him is of a man overfed on starch, wearing an ill-fitting suit and a tinfoil hat, protest sign in one hand and a squished pastry in the other. He’s this forum’s version of the street evangelist who shouts obscenities and damns everyone that passes.

  I realize I’m transgressing my own advice to ignore him, but I can’t think of any way to suggest that he’s not worth your attention except to say so. It’s one of life’s conundrums.
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  36

  What do you think of AOG church?

  by shallbefree in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello friends, i am a fading jw and i am thinking of attending sunday service at a local aog church here, just for fellowship.

  i have lots of friends but none of them are spiritual minded.

  not that i am complaining but it would be nice to meet some spiritual minded people.

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  Old Goat

  And you thought the Watchtower was bad .... AoG and C&MA are crazies.
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  1

  Help needed: Does someone know these WTS publications?

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does someone know these wts publications?

  might be early tracts by russell, something from the judge or whatever ... not "ordinary" books it seems:.

  then they will knowthe lord's day and youyou know not the hourthe gentile times have endedgog of magog: the arch deceivergifts in men.

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  Old Goat

  I became a witness in the late 1940s. I have an extensive library. I have never heard of these. Some of the titles seem to be watchtower articles. have you checked the watchtower cd. they may have been watchtower articles.
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  40

  Kingdom melodies / B4 Copyright/JW`s stealing melodies/anyone remember this ?

  by smiddy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can recall sometime ago in the 60`s 70`s or theirabouts,it when they first printed their own songbook must have been before the org.copyrighted their material,and the reason they did that is because some brothers were stealing the tunes ?

  maybe modifying them and passing them off as their own for commercial gain?

  ( i know some of you are going to say wtf ?

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  Old Goat

  The first song book published by Zion's Watch Tower was Songs of the Bride, edited by W. I. Mann and published in 1879. The songs were adapted from standard religious songbooks. What you're thinking of is the 1950 song book. It contained "Kingdom Songs" written to "worldly" music, including Hark the Herald Angels Sing and some classical works. There are some similarities between some Witness hymns and "worldly" music that mighty make you wonder about influences.

  I don't know about any scandals over the music. It is funny that the 1925 song book has Christmas music in it.
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  7

  Photos of Russell Era

  by greek in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi to all here i post some photos of the russell era: http://bibliotecajw.blogspot.com/2011/11/fotos-de-la-era-russell.html.

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  Old Goat

  Some people are as ethical as a snake. You might want to credit the blog from which you 'borrowed' the photos.

  Credit where credit is due. The photos all come from http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ .
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  18

  C.T. Russell and 1914

  by Quendi in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure there are those on this board who can help me with some research questions.

  they concern charles taze russell and his infatuation with 1914 and were posed to me by a member of my own small group.

  we call ourselves jwa for jehovah's witnesses anonymous.

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  Old Goat

  I should add some additional material. Into 1875 Barbour taught that the Gentile Times would end in 1878. He and his associates had been disappointed in 1873 and 1874. They'd expected Christ to return and take them to heaven. When they adopted invisible presence views (prompted by Benjamin W. Keith) they separated two events they believed would be simultaneous: Christ's return and the heavenly glorification (they called it Translation). Barbour believed translation would occur in 1975. He and a small group awaited translation in Brockport NY in the spring of 1875. This failure destroyed most of his chronological frame work, and he sought solutions. He quickly found an alternative fulfillment for 1875 expectations, seeing it as the start date for restitution blessings and an invisible heavenly resurrection. He shifted to Elliott's calculation as the probable end of gentile times.

  None of this research is original to me. This comes from Rachael de Vienne, PhD, one of the authors of the Nelson Barbour biography. I don't think this has been published anywhere yet. It's material destined for inclusion in a revision of their book. I am impatient for their second book which discusses Russell and his associates up to 1887. I've read some rough draft chapters. It's spectacular.
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  18

  C.T. Russell and 1914

  by Quendi in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure there are those on this board who can help me with some research questions.

  they concern charles taze russell and his infatuation with 1914 and were posed to me by a member of my own small group.

  we call ourselves jwa for jehovah's witnesses anonymous.

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  Old Goat

  The pyramid measure was used to supplement the 606-1914 calculation. The earliest mention of "gentile times" as 2520 years appears to be in a book by an american clergyman written in the 1790s. Babour got the date from Elliott, as mentioned above. Much of this story is told in the book by Schulz and de Vienne, Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet. It's available at lulu.com

  Barbour adopted the 1914 date in 1875. Russell got the date and calculation from him. Russell and Barbour calculated the times of the nations from 606 BC. The current method of calculating from 607 came to Witnesses later, but it is derived from S. D. Baldwin's Armageddon: or the overthrow of Romanism and Monarchy (1854).

  Schulz and de Vienne maintain two websites, both blogs. One is public and one is by invitation only, though it is fairly easy to get access to the private blog. They had some sort of harssment issues months ago and took the main part of their work to the invitaiton only blog. The public blog is http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

  The meaty research is on the private blog. A recent post about Russell's youth identified the congregational church he associated with, the minister who tried to satisfy his questions of faith and presented other information I did not know. If you're really interested in Watchtower history, that's the best source.
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  "Truth History"

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  some of you followed the truthhistory blog until it shut down due to some form of harassment.

  it's back up and running, though there is only an announcement so far.

  i'm glad to see them back on a public blog.

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  Old Goat

  Some of you followed the truthhistory blog until it shut down due to some form of harassment. It's back up and running, though there is only an announcement so far. I'm glad to see them back on a public blog. The private blog is excellent.

  http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

  Let's hope they return to the same high standard of material they used to post on this blog.
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  49

  Who wrote the May 22, 1969 Awake article "What Future for the Young"?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know who wrote the may 22, 1969 awake!

  article, "what future for the young?"?.

  i wonder if they still are at bethel.. .

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  Old Goat

  I remember this article. I don't know who wrote it. This is John Wischuck's style, but I really don't know. Everyone writing articles like this in the late 1960's had a more or less homogenized style. That came from the proofreading and editing process. A large number of articles were farmed out to other branches, but the writers were often American or Canadian missionaries. Unless someone told you they wrote a specific article all you were left with was a guess.